TW wrote:
You know JP and NCC clearly teaches this false "Gospel" below:
"Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour will not only save you from sin and hell, but also give to you health, joy, peace, love, hope, unconditional acceptance, favour, the power to get wealth, all good things you can think of and more." http://www.newcreation.org.sg/aboutus/we_believe/cross.htm
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Lip Kee replied:
Why would proclaiming that "Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour will not only save you from sin and hell, but also give to you health, joy, peace, love, hope, unconditional acceptance, favour, the power to get wealth, all good things you can think of and more" be tantamount to preaching a false "Gospel"?
Do we see Christ as everything we need?
Would you agree that Jesus Christ is:
- the Lord who is able and willing to heal;
- the joy of all the Earth;
- the Prince of Peace,
- God's perfect love personified;
- our hope of glory
- the beloved in whom we are accepted;
- the Lord who enables us to be able and willing to give (in terms of material possessions, time, efforts, love) generously to help others;
- the source of all good things
The way I see it, receiving Jesus as my Lord and Savior means that I also receive Him as my Lord of ALL, my Savior to whom I turn to for any and every kind of challenges I face in life.
When I say that take Jesus as my EVERYTHING, I mean just that: EVERYTHING - including health, joy, peace, love, hope, unconditional acceptance, favour, the ability to be generous with others (with our time, our energy, our material possessions), and all good things I can ever ask or think.
So, in that sense, I really don't see what's wrong with the statement.
Would you like to point out which portion(s) of the statement you find problematic or false?
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TW wrote:
LipKee,
When anyone declares a "gospel" inviting one come to Jesus to get "favour, the power to get wealth, all good things you can think of and more.", one declares a false gospel and a false christ.
COVETOUSNESS is IDOLATRY ! Colossians 3:5
"It's idolatry because the contentment that the heart should be getting from God it starts to get from something else.So covetousness is desiring something so much that you lose your contentment in God. Or: losing your contentment in God so that you start to seek it elsewhere. Covetousness is a heart divided between two gods. So Paul calls it idolatry. "
God is to be magnified by the offensive and "foolishness" nature of true Gospel of Jesus Christ. God is to be desired above ALL, Christ is to be desired above ALL. God chose the foolish Gospel of a despised and suffering Christ. God sovereignly by grace draws and calls a sinner to come to Christ by allowing the sinner to see the beauty of the Cross of Christ. "For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1Cor 1:18, 20.
When one comes to Jesus Christ, one comes to Jesus Christ ALONE. When one comes to seek $$$, one come to a false Christ or an "idolatry" offering the prospect of $$$.
This "gospel" from JP and NCC is the sad perversion of true Gospel of Jesus Christ. The false "gospel" from JP and NCC robbed Christ of His due glory. "Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour will not only save you from sin and hell, but also give to you health, joy, peace, love, hope, unconditional acceptance, favour, the power to get wealth, all good things you can think of and more." http://www.newcreation.org.sg/aboutus/we_believe/cross.htm
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Lip Kee replied:
TW,
We all go through different stages in our walk with God, don't we?
A journey - from being self-occupied to being Christ-occupied
I don't know about you, but I did not start out my faith walk with Jesus because I had a pure heart that appreciated Him and Him alone, without any trace of selfishness. No. I started my walk with God like a typical self-centered child, who thought only about what I needed and wanted. I wanted to be saved. I wanted to enjoy heaven. I wanted God to hear and answer my prayers. It was all about ME AND MY BLESSINGS.
As I matured more in the Lord, I began to think more about how I can be a blessing to others. I started to find ways to serve and to give to people - first just within the church community, and eventually beyond the church to the society/ world at large. It became more about OTHERS AND HOW I COULD BE A BLESSING TO THEM.
After coming to NCC (in late 2002)and sitting under the ministry of Pastor Prince, I began to see more and more of how beautiful Jesus is in and of Himself, and I started to really appreciate how truly amazing His grace is. As I learned more and more about the goodness and generosity of my Savior and Lord - Who not only blesses me but also allow me the privilege of being a blessings to others, my focus started to be more and more on Him alone. More and more, it is about JESUS AND ONLY JESUS.
From being purely self-occupied, to being more others-occupied, to being more and more Christ- occupied, it has been a journey for me.
I don't claim speak for every believer, but at least for myself, and for many believers that I know personally in NCC, our faith walks are a journey we are taking, and along this journey of faith, NCC has played and is playing an important role in helping us becoming less self-occupied, less others-occupied, but more Christ occupied. :)
Revisiting the definition of wealth and prosperity
I would really want to encourage you to see "wealth" and "prosperity" not just in terms of money and material possessions. If you find those two words offensive, may I suggest we use the phrase "more than enough for ourselves that we may give generously to others". How about that? :)
I don't have a million dollars in my bank accounts. But I believe I have more than enough to give to others. And because I believe so, I give generously.
If and when I find myself facing financial challenges (which I had, several times in my life), I continue to hold on to the truth that the Lord is my Shepherd and I shall not want. I continue to be generous in my giving because I truly believe that I have more than enough because Jesus Christ is my Shepherd.
(Note: I am not giving you mere theoretical arguments here. I am sharing my life and how I actually live it. If you so demand, I will gladly provide you with the evidences of my giving of money and time to churches and various charitable organizations over the years)
On the covetousness of man and the Solution
Man has his needs and desires. Every Man seeks to be satisfied. Every Man seeks to blessed with good things. Man, by his very nature, covets. How would you address this problem of Man's covetousness?
I suggest the solution is to point man to Christ. Because in Christ, every need and desire of Man is fully met. I believe what Man really covets is the Presence of Christ.
And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with me coveting the Presence of Christ, do you?
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TW wrote:
Hi LipKee,
I appreciate your attempt to share your experiences, I do not intend to cast aspersion on your experiences. The issue is at hand is the perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The sad perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as typified by the teaching from JP's book below, how can any Christian who truly believe and love the Gospel of Jesus Christ not feel grieve and rightly conclude that "NCC as MAN-focused: always preaching about MY blessing of health, MY blessing of wealth, My blessings - it's all about ME, ME, ME." ??
"My friend, the moment you are born again, you have Jesus in your life. And when you have Him in your life, get ready to prosper for gold will come to you! But don’t look for the gold, look to Jesus - He is the power to get wealth. (Deuteronomy 8:18) The presence of the Son of the living God in your life attracts prosperity. Because of His grace toward us, Jesus though He was rich, was made poor at the cross for your sake so that “you through His poverty might become rich.
Beloved, when you have Jesus in your life and when you know that He has paid the price for your prosperity, you can boldly declare, “Jesus was made poor at the cross for my sake so that through His poverty, I am made rich in all things!” - Joseph Prince, ‘Rich Through Jesus’ Poverty’, in id., Destined To Reign Devotional: Daily reflections for effortless success, wholeness and victorious living (Singapore, 22 Media Pte. Ltd., 2008), p. 357.
Look through the whole devotional yourself, JP is NOT talking about spiritual wealth, it is clearly MATERIAL WEALTH and MATERIAL PROSPERITY.
Did your Lord Jesus, at the garden in Gethsemane, agonized and shuddered at accepting the cup the Father has asked Him to so that Jesus "paid the price for your prosperity"? This is a FALSE gospel presentation and a false Christ is being presented.
Anyone who truly love the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Savior will reject this sad perversion of the Gospel.
The Gospel is the power unto salvation to be preached for the conversion of sinful souls of men and women to repent and turn to Jesus Christ for their only hope for eternity to be with their Creator, do NOT pervert it !
Shalom
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Lip Kee replied:
TW,
Am I a false believer? Am I perverting the gospel?
I believe that because I have Jesus in my life, I have the power to get wealth. (Deuteronomy 8:18). I believe and I boldly proclaim that "Jesus was made poor at the cross for my sake so that through His poverty, I am made rich in ALL THINGS" - not merely spiritual or material, but ALL things - both spiritual and material.
Now, do you therefore conclude that I am a lover and servant of money? Do you therefore consider me as a lesser (or even false) believer? Do you therefore see me as someone who perverts the gospel?
Or would you reserve your comments about me until you get to know me better as a person, until you see how I relate to people and conduct my daily affairs, until you see the fruit (or lack of fruit) in my life?
Did Jesus speak of just spiritual blessings only or BOTH spiritual and material blessings?
The Jesus I know did not MERELY speak about spiritual blessings only. The Jesus I know taught me to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and ALL THESE THINGS (material blessings) will be added upon me.
Similarly, NCC does not merely teaches about spiritual blessings only. NCC teaches the congregation to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and and ALL THESE THINGS (material blessings) will be added upon them.
As I've written previously, two different persons may observe the same facts about NCC and read the same words written by Pastor Prince, but arrive at totally different conclusions about the church.
After having served with the pastors, leaders and other members in the church for more than 5 years, my personal conclusion is "NCC is CHRIST-focused: always preaching about CHRIST'S blessing of health, CHRIST'S blessing of wealth, CHRIST'S blessings - it's all about CHRIST, CHRIST, CHRIST."
Note: The original discussion took place in a friend's blog:
here
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